U.s. markets are down, world markets are down = cons, are you proud of what your "leaders" have achieved?

Haltis and Gentle Leaders ARE safe. When used on a dog with NO drive. I can use a gentle leader on my daughter's Golden.

I don't need to. She walks so slow I have to slow down for her. Besides, why in the world do I want to put something on her that goes over her muzzle?

Harnesses on a high drive dog cause rubbing. Irritation. Loss of fur.

Rashes. From my personal experience: I started training my APBT to walk without pulling. I tried a Gentle Leader.

Guess what? She got OUT of it. She hated it.

The walks were horrible for her and myself. I then tired a harness. One of the best NON-pulling harnesses.

I fit it properly. Made sure it was not too tight, not rubbing......Guess what? It ENCOURAGED her to pull.

She pulled far worse than on a regular BUCKLE collar. I honestly gave everything out there a good try. I have a drawer full of every contraption for training a dog on a lead.

Then I decided to do what I wanted to do in the beginning. Get a PRONG. You know what it is with people and prong collars?

People who have never used a prong are the ones with the 'anti-prong' attitude. A prong collar does not PINCH. The prongs on these collars are dull.

They are not sharp. They do NOT dig into the skin. A prong applies equal PRESSURE.

There are cheap prongs on the market which require you to fit it over the dog's head. These things are just what they are: Cheap. A GOOD prong comes with a hooking device and also comes with extra prongs.

When using a well made prong fitted correctly with just enough 'give' to apply a simple correction is a gift from heaven for a HIGH DRIVE DOG. Launi is learning to walk correctly on a prong. Launi will walk fine on her buckle collar.

But I have an APBT. I have serious responsibilty to keep my dog under complete control at all times. That means if an off leash dog charges *I* MUST be able to stop Launi from advancing.

With a prong I can stop 50 pounds of bone and muscle on a DIME. I can put her behind me in a sit/stay. I will fight the approaching aggressive dog.

I have NEVER in years of use, had any prong leave marks, destroy fur, put too much pressure on the trachea, strangle or make a dog 'quiver' with fright when I pull it out. Anti-prong people have never used one and if they have and found it 'cruel' they did NOT fit and use it correctly so therefore it is THEIR fault. As far as e collars, I cannot give a personal experience because I have never used one but would not hesitate to LEARN if I needed to.

ADD: Prong collars do NOT break the skin? WTF?! And I also have a drawer full of the Ilusion collars by Mr. Millan.

They suck. ADD #2: Livin Life: If your dog does not have high drive and doesn't pull then a buckle collar is FINE.

I think any collar can be safely used by the right handler. A dog CAN be hurt by a halti or a prong or a choke - it depends on the handler and the dog. You're right in that a halti will not automatically correct all problems.

However, I have found that the dog is significantly more aware of a halti and will quickly stop the pulling behaviour just with the halti being put on. I have used haltis and choke and prong - they are all training tools - how is a prong differnt from a halti as far as obedience training? Either collar uses physical deterrent to stop the dog from pulling.

I think any collar can be used for training with the ultimate goal being you are not going to always use that collar.

I cant really gove you an answer,but what I can give you is a way to a solution, that is you have to find the anglde that you relate to or peaks your interest. A good paper is one that people get drawn into because it reaches them ln some way.As for me WW11 to me, I think of the holocaust and the effect it had on the survivors, their families and those who stood by and did nothing until it was too late.